In the game Mafia Wars, bullying is a problem. Most laugh at players who whine about being attacked and tell them to go play FarmVille. It is a valid complaint if the player is being "sat on" by the same person 24/7. These players have difficulties icing because as soon as they heal, they are iced within seconds. Players who use fighting scripts for this type of abuse are the problem and not the fighting scripts themselves. Save Don's Dinner is an event that has brought bullying back into the spotlight. Players who have someone sitting on them are unable to keep their Turkeys long enough to redeem them.
At one point Zynga attempted to define bullying quantitatively and created a feature called the Witness Protection Program. It failed miserably. They also asked the Player Advisory Committee to help them come up with a solution. Shortly after, Zynga changed their views on bullying and decided that there was no such thing in Mafia Wars. If bullying carried over outside of the game, then it was considered cyber bullying and security would get involved. Extorting loot and game cards out of weaker players is a common practice used by bullies. It happens way more frequently than you would think and nothing is being done to stop it.
Save Don's Dinner gave bullies a whole new reason to threaten their targets. The event favors fighters as it's the only way to get Turkeys without limits. Those who aren't good fighters are tired of collecting Turkeys just to watch them disappear. Many have stopped playing and said they would return when the event is over. If weaker players aren't producing Turkeys, there are less to go around. Specific target attacking seems to be the best way as fighting off the fightlist doesn't yield as many Turkeys. Zynga has facilitated this practice by providing players with a Rival List. Not only are you told when your target is alive, you can also tell if they have any Turkeys. The big Turkey icon can't be missed.
I wanted to see how easy it would be to steal Turkeys from the same player. I added my energy account to my Rivals List.
I farmed my 20 Turkeys for the day doing jobs. You can see on my Rivals List the account is alive and has Turkeys.
I took a tally of my Turkeys and the Turkeys in my energy account. I started with 13 and my mini had 20.
I proceeded to attack and the Player Updates from my mini show that I stole a Turkey about once per minute.
It took about 30 minutes and all the Turkeys from my mini were gone. I was up 17 Turkeys. I didn't get all 20 because other players probably attacked the same account a few of my own Turkeys were stolen.
Unless you are a strong fighter and can protect your Turkeys, you won't be getting many loot items from this event. Zynga has imposed limits on Turkeys and Turkey Protection Boosts making it impossible for the average player to get a ruby level item. They also gave cyber bullies an extra reason to practice extorting. Many offer to stop attacking if the victim will give them a Game Card. I've seen more complaining about this event than any other one. I'm all for stronger players doing better in events but when it's at the expense of other players it makes the event (and the game) no longer fun for the majority of the player base.
There would have been nothing wrong with rewarding players for getting ices but not with the Turkeys that weaker players worked hard to get. 20 Turkey Protection boosts a day is a joke to most. Those don't last very long, especially if you are being attacked non-stop. So many have said this was the final straw and quit. Zynga should be doing as much as possible to keep players but they keep driving them away. This type of event is more proof that Zynga is more concerned about short term revenue gains then they are with player retention. Maybe there is something to those rumors that once Zyngas IPO filing is approved they are going to sell out and not look back.
November 22nd
650,000 Daily Players
November 28th
620,000 Daily Players
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I consider myself a moderately strong fighter and haven't been able to keep more than 1 or 2 turkeys. Gave up on this event within a couple hours of it's release. Just another example of Zynga's complete lack of understanding or caring about their player base. If it wasn't for the friends I've made playing, I would have quit a long long time ago!!
ReplyDeleteIt's not only this event that is driving player to leave the game , it is also them NY Properties , people hate them and the begging spam that comes with them.
ReplyDeleteBut back to the point of your post, i have a mini with high attack and low defense , i am able to collect turkeys faster then i lose them by fighting in Brazil or Chicago.
There is groups out there that specialize in going after Bullies "Does that Make them Bullies" ? Depend on who you ask :)
When you ask people to define Bully , you get as many answers as the number of people you ask.
I look for Zynga to go Public and then sell out shortly after , i have seen many Companies do that and even worked for one that did just that , it is common.
I must be doing something wrong. I thought I was a decently strong fighter (11K combined att/def) but I'm still having trouble getting and keeping turkeys. It's made me fight and play less so that I keep what I have until I get the ruby butler.
ReplyDeleteAs always, thanks for keeping up this page-- it's immensely helpful.
The game is Mafia Wars, who if nothing else are the ultimate bullies. The whole essence of the game is built around bullying, so it not surprising that some people can't tell the difference between playing a role and actual bullying. There are also plenty of people laying the game with mini accounts, energy accounts farmer accounts, etc, in breach of FB and Zynga TOS, and by any standard is cheating. I notice this is mentioned above, so can only presume that this editorial is saying that cheating is okay but bullying is not?
ReplyDeleteYou're absolutely correct. This event (and to a somewhat lesser extent the "Ice Seasons") has significantly increased bullying in the game.
ReplyDeleteI've seen a new player (Level 25) being iced by Level 2137, 3611, 7980, etc. She sent a message to the 7980 and was told she was on his Fight List (but at lease friended and added to mafia).
The Level 2137 and 3611 are from the same clan which also has a level 25 that looking at stats and achievements is essentially a dummy account, possibly to harvest links to share with the higher players in the clan?
And it's not just the really low level players, either - it appears that the bullies are tending to target anyone below level 1000. A level 950 with 5K A/D (248K/244K equip) and 3K Health hasn't been able to keep a single Turkey so far during this event.
In short, you're absolutely correct - Zynga needs to do something about the bullying. In previous events we had a limiter that would at least reduce targeted attacks; understand they either removed or dialed it way back because of Family Battles; perhaps that needs to be re-implemented so that it works everywhere except during a Family Battle?
By comparison, I now have 8 Ruby Butlers, and I have my filters set to not attack anyone below level 1000. Perhaps that's an option for Zynga to consider at least when events like these are in place - partition not just the fight list, but all fighting to restrict players from attacking more than a certain percentage below their level (or better yet, their total skills since level becomes meaningless the higher one goes).
ReplyDeleteIt sounds like someone doesn't like this event because they can't use a third part tool to get the loot. Too funny. Oh and by the way I am one of those people that stole your turkeys. I have you bookmarked.
ReplyDelete@anonymous #4, in order to test features and verify bugs secondary accounts are necessary. Most serious players have at least one. Most of Zyngas staff have one. It's not a Zynga TOS breaker, it is a FB TOS breaker and to comply with their rules to avoid losing your secondary account, you need to have them belong to a real person. Several of my accounts belong to someone else so if there is ever question by FB, I wouldn't lose them. It's not really cheating and honestly who cares? You are sadly mistaken if you think those App stats are all main accounts and I'm the only who has more than one. I used my other account to test this so I wouldn't have to steal from someone who cares.
ReplyDelete@anonymous #7........
You are so full of shit (and a coward for not signing your name). I can say with 100% certainty that you did not steal any of my Turkeys. I'm doing just fine in this event but I'm not afraid to spend RPs. And you can use 3rd party tools. While I ice for Family Progression, when I do my stream scanner to get 20, jobs to get 20 more (when it's working), I'm fighting. I accept my 20 Turkey Protectors for the day and purchase 20 more. By the time they are all used up, I have 100 Turkeys and redeem them. Once they are redeemed, I rob for the rest of the day. I've been able to do this everyday of the event and have enough Ruby Butlers to make me happy. This was written for players who can't even get a silver one because of bullies. If you have me bookmarked, I sure have noticed, lol.
Hahahah, anonymous#7 u got just owned by the way...but probably u wont even read it, thats how bad u are lol
ReplyDeleteMore important: am a level 3800, kinda energy account but still i got 7k attack, same def, i still cant hold to one of my turkeys if i just keep fighting(assasin-a-nator) with no filters, as soon as i change the filters to 2k health i slowly gain turkeys. But i am to lazy to do this every time and its gay so i rather let the turkeys fly...Its to much of a ice fast and hide game. So basically as long as i are over 20 health and u play the game u will lose a turkey. To much work for 1 item, which will be obsolete soon enough, unless every body stops playing it sooner as that happens.
Thanks for the great work Loot lady team
LOL you are collecting 1 ruby butler a day and you say that is enough to make you happy. Funny coming from someone who always tries to get as much loot as she can from event. Admit it you can do more than 1 a day. Many people are targeting {ASS} because they run scripts that keep them healed and they are easy pickings.
ReplyDeleteBTW bullying isn't against TOS but your 3rd party tools are. So you are the one in the wrong and the "bullies" are playing with in the rules.
Thank you Darjan, these idiot trolls are so annoying. I do collected more than 1 ruby butler a day. I often get more than I need when fighting. I probably have more than you. I'll be posting an update on Inventory group and you can see how many I have. Fact of the matter is I know you haven't stolen any because I always keep them protected until I redeem them. Bullying is not against the TOS, if you read the post you would see I acknowledged that. Extortion is and will get your account banned if you someone can prove it. Not all third party tool are considered bad, read the TOS to learn how the gray it. They know if the tools go so do the over 300K who use them and probably the game. You will have to find new places to troll when that happens.
ReplyDeleteYou are a liar. I have and will continue to steal your turkeys
ReplyDeleteLOL, you are doing a poor job. I never leave Turkeys unprotected and other than the one or two left over when I go off line, nobody has gotten many of them.
ReplyDeleteThanksgiving Turkey Unknown 00 00 ×3 (0/0)
Turkey Protection Unknown 00 00 ×0 (0/0)
Butler Henchmen 105 (+5) 60 ×1 (1/0)
Butler Henchmen 115 (+15) 70 ×10 (10/0)
Butler Henchmen 135 (+35) 80 ×5 (5/0)
Butler Henchmen 155 (+55) 95 ×22 (22/0)
- According to one analysis I read, the average Mafia Wars player has 3 'helper' accounts. Which means the 620,000 DAU reflects far, far fewer real players.
ReplyDelete- I've been playing for years but there's just no way I can accumulate 100 Turkeys. Why didn't they make the reward upgradeable, like in other events? The obvious answer is that they want you to spend RP on protection.
This whole things sounds a lot like what the OWS are protesting about. ;)
ReplyDeleteThis event STINKS. The new NY properties they put in STINK. It no longer feels like a game and feels more like a chore.
ReplyDeleteCan't keep hold of any turkey's with my main account, my mini fighter has managed 1 ruby butler, pointless event
ReplyDeleteJane, Jane. You never accept critics, don't you?
ReplyDeleteYou said that you get one Ruby Butler a day... you have 22 (+16 other Butlers)! In what 3-4 days? I have 6k stamina, I use all bonuses for stamina and I get... 1 a day.
I have 15k skill on def. And my Att is higher then your def. And now you'll tell me that you can get 1.000 Turkeys a day?
Did Zynga give you an unlimited RP pool? Or are you using some other scripts (that normaly you will keep for yourself).
Something smells here very bad...
tq
What Jen has said here is not about using scripts so why bring it up, it's about saving the game. Yes the game is a battle and yes sitting on a player is not against the rules. BUT high end players who do it to newbee accounts are idiots. I have a level 114 family member who, unlike myself found it easy to get the Ruby award. Ices are easy at that level if you have a balanced account due to fighters low health. The problem of bullying comes in when a level 4300 sits on him for 2 days straight. What these idiots are doing is simple. Find an account with Turkeys with their second low level account, creating a white list and then battering everyone on that whitelist with their main account. The repercussions of this (as Jen was pointing out) are massive to the game. ALL OF THOSE level 100 accounts, the future of the game, will simply quit. Then who are you gonna bully....there won't be any new players, no easy targets...game over. Zynga need to bring in code that allows you to fight only + or - 20% of your level. Allowing a level 4300 to sit on a level 100+ is just suicidal for the game.
ReplyDeletei got into it with a clan the other day on a point of principle and found myself in the ironic situation of pinching loads of turkey's from the clans small players whilst this clans bigger players robbed them back off me. the irony of them robbing their own clans mates turkeys was delicious . how i laughed as my fight losses leapt at an alarming rate
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDeleteThis whole things sounds a lot like what the OWS are protesting about. ;)
November 28, 2011 10:20 AM
you mean you have no point just like the OWS idiots?
@tq-you didn't get the underlying message in this post. Turkeys are super easy to get if you are a low level player. I've said from the get go NOT to fight off the fight list but to attack specific targets. No special scripts here. Use your secondary accounts to your advantage. Yes I did say I was going to stop after one Butler as the first one took a long time and a lot of effort to get. That all changed when I realized how easy Turkeys are to steal. Anyone with a little knowledge of the game and how things work should be able to get down a system for getting as many Turkeys as they want. And by the way, my name is not Jane, it's Jennifer.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDeleteThis whole things sounds a lot like what the OWS are protesting about. ;)
November 28, 2011 10:20 AM
you mean you have no point just like the OWS idiots?
Do you think that the top 1% got to where they are on their own or by playing fair? They could teach you a few things about bullying and extortion.
Eh, I got my butler. I've never been a strong fighter and I had other things to worry about (still burning through Brazil and Chicago). I really only wanted the one anyway. Good job on the walkthroughs on how to maximize the amount of turkeys you can get per day. It really helped others I pointed the blog to. Keep up the good work!
ReplyDeleteThe name's Jennifer, you Asshat!
ReplyDeleteYour haters are noobs. Keep up the good work, Jennifer.
~ Frank
Upss Jenny! You're right. Don't know what I was thinking when I posted Jane. Sorry for this one.
ReplyDeleteBut we both know I'm right about the rest.
Frank sit! Good doggy!
tq
I have managed to obtain enough Turkeys to get 8 Ruby Butlers so far, and halfway to the 9th. I don't bookmark people or sit on them, except for one dude today who just kept attacking me over and over again...never got an ice...and I iced him seven times and stole seven turkeys from him. Frankly, I had better things to do, but he wouldn't leave me alone.
ReplyDeleteAnyhow, I do agree that this event really does not work for weaker players, and that makes me sad...a number of good friends...and good players have not been able to get any Butlers at any level because they can't keep Turkeys. They really need to think about events like this before they roll them out.
Speaking of that, how does one get to be on the Player Advisory Council?
i gave up on turkeys seeing as a clan has been sitting on me for weeks....they ice me constantly as soon as i heal making the game virtually unplayable. I realize im gonna get killed but, why cant these people fight off the fightlist like everyone else?
ReplyDeleteSad to be farmed of my Turkeys from one of the MWLL admins....and no, it is not Jen... I ain't a cry-baby, but I thought the person had higher morale than farm his Turkeys on a target list, especially as he should consider himself representing MWLL while playing the game!
ReplyDelete2 bronze butlers is all I managed to collect...but that's just because I managed to hold on to that many Turkeys....
If they're planning anything like this in the future, it would go a long way to preventing at least some of the bullying by simply "not" showing Turkeys on the Rivals list
ReplyDeleteFight list is fine, but when you switch to "Rivals" turn them off. Shouldn't really be that big an exercise in programming.
I have to admit I find all of this humorous. I for one never gave a crap about the turkeys. I have 0 butlers and have no intentions of getting any. I like to fight but I am the same way I lose them as quick as I get them. Therefore letting them leave. If I have 30 turkeys in stock I expect to have 30 turkeys taken. Right now it is part of the game, it is an opinion of weather it is an asset to the game or not. Yes if someone sits on you 24/7 or even for 4 hours that is bullying. But if someone comes in and ices you 5 times and steals 5 turkeys I think that is a bit of a stretch.
ReplyDeletemaybe a limit on number of turkeys that can be stolen from one account in a given day would help prevent anyone from sitting on a particular account. Getting turkeys isn't the problem, it's hanging onto them until you can collect.
ReplyDeleteIt would have helped me if the request turkey option had been working. I finally got to use this yesterday as the game was drawing to a close. I ain't a whinger, but I have come to the conclusion that some of us lower end players are only cannon fodder for the BIG boys and girls.
ReplyDeleteBullies have always been in the game. It doesn't matter if it is for turkeys or an ice season or any other stupid event that Zynga throws at us. With so many players quitting we are just now starting to see a higher concentration of them.
ReplyDeleteBullying happens with and without scripts, if they were suddenly gone bullying would still occur.
I have seen evidence of players sitting on others below the shark tank and the reason has varied, and not all are about the ice season or turkeys. Most is because the fight buckets are so small you end up icing the same players day in and out and they call in their mains accounts to avenge them. Others it is for other equally stupid things such as a war assist.
Then of course you run into them if you are in the shark tank as well. The ones that maybe you iced or took out in a war, hit once and lost, robbed off of the robbing board....any excuse that there is within the game can be used by a bully to do just what they do.
Have I been bullied? YES!Have I bullied others? YES! I have always had my reasons, reasons that had evidence to support why I was/am doing so. Because despite actually being a bully myself I do not condone bullying within the game. Ironic isn't it?
I have actually been cyber bullied because I iced somebody once off of the fight list, yes once. So I now sit on them when they are above health and I catch it. I also come to the aid of lower level players (the ones below 450)on my friends list and in my own family when they are being sat on by somebody in the shark tank and can't play. I do so always with evidence that it is not from a hitlist bounty posted on them and they are being sat on.So I bully the bully. Other than that I don't sit on others. I run down the fight list.
So who is to say that a bully truly is a bully? The very people I sit on cry foul up one end and down the other and get support from their friends who sit on me(which is where screen shots come in handy).What goes around comes around and it is a horrible cycle that I don't see coming to an end and it is so grey and undefinable that Zynga will probably never be able to satisfactorily figure it out.
You create your own account,if you put skil points to stamina and energy to move up more levels as oppose to making your account stronger than don't bitch and complain about events like this.Every event is not for every player.However,I do agree that higher levels should fight higher levels and lower levels should fight lower levels.
ReplyDeleteThe game is called Mafia Warz not Manner's Warz.